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<\/a><\/p>\n\u00a0Photo of what seems to be an authentic vintage Otto Link No USA Slant 5 Tenor Sax Mouthpiece,\u00a0 a Meyer NY Bros 4 Alto Sax Mouthpiece, an Otto Link No USA Slant 6* Tenor Sax Mouthpiece<\/strong><\/p>\n Unfortunately, I had to be the bearer of what might be some bad news.\u00a0 You see, he bought these three mouthpieces on Ebay from a seller in Hungary and I had recently been reading a thread on SOTW (Sax on the Web) about a ring of sellers selling counterfeit vintage mouthpieces from a variety of countries including Hungary, Greece, Bulgaria, Serbia, UK, Scotland and supposedly the country of Florida!<\/p>\n It seemed that many of these sellers also deal with vintage coins and other antiquities from what I have read.\u00a0 As soon as someone would catch on to the counterfeit mouthpieces, coins or other antiquities they were selling, the seller would close down their Ebay account and start a new one in another country.<\/p>\n I mentioned this to my friend over email and he immediately got nervous.\u00a0 He is not one to waste time so he immediately sent the three mouthpieces off to Brian Powell the next day for an evaluation.\u00a0 Brian Powell has probably refaced more vintage mouthpieces than just about anyone on the planet so if anyone could tell if these were real or not it would be him. You can check out Brian Powell’s website<\/a> here to find out more about him.\u00a0 Here is another photo of the three mouthpieces below:<\/p>\n Counterfeit Otto Link No USA Slant 5 Tenor Mouthpiece, Counterfeit Meyer NY Bros 4 Alto Mouthpiece, Counterfeit Otto Link No USA Slant 6* Tenor Mouthpiece<\/strong><\/p>\n These mouthpieces certainly looked real to me when I first saw them in person.\u00a0 In fact, a well known mouthpiece refacer on SOTW Sakshama started a thread on these types of counterfeit mouthpieces by posting:<\/p>\n “Beware of pristine looking Slant Signature Links on eBay. Some are not real although they look scary good and play like the real thing but are made of some resin material. Here is one that I got on Ebay from a guy in St Petersburg in Florida.\u00a0 I’m spellbound by the level of sophistication as the mouthpiece passes the visual test with flying colors.”-<\/em>Sakshama<\/em><\/p>\n Wow, if a mouthpiece refacer like Sakshama could not tell the difference from the Ebay photos then what hope is there for the rest of us?\u00a0 That is scary!\u00a0 I was curious what Brian Powell would say about these three mouthpieces……<\/p>\n Counterfeit Otto Link No USA Slant 5 Tenor Mouthpiece, Counterfeit Meyer NY Bros 4 Alto Mouthpiece, Counterfeit Otto Link No USA Slant 6* Tenor Mouthpiece<\/strong><\/p>\n Brian Powell received the package a few days later and immediately emailed my friend:<\/p>\n Real Vintage Otto Link Slant Hard Rubber Mouthpiece on Left with Orange\/Brown Refacing Dust, Counterfeit Otto Link Slant on Right with Gray Refacing Dust-photo courtesy of Sakshama<\/strong><\/p>\n I asked Sakshama if I could use these three photos of his with the refacing dust on them so you could see the difference in dust color.\u00a0 Sakshama is a mouthpiece refacer in NYC and you can find out more about him at his website<\/a>.<\/p>\n Above, are a real vintage Otto Link Slant Signature hard rubber mouthpiece on the left with orange\/brown refacing dust on it.\u00a0 On the right is the counterfeit Otto Link Slant Signature made out of a resin (plastic) with grayish refacing dust on it from the resin (plastic) material.<\/p>\n The Different Colors of the Refacing Dust as Seen on Sandpaper-Orange is Real Hard Rubber, White is Resin (Plastic)-photo courtesy of Sakshama<\/strong><\/p>\n You can also see the difference in refacing dust on the sandpaper above.\u00a0 The orange\/brown color is hard rubber. The white\/gray color is the resin (plastic).<\/p>\n Real Vintage Otto Link Slant Hard Rubber Mouthpiece on Left with Orange\/Brown Refacing Dust, Counterfeit Otto Link Slant on Right with Gray Refacing Dust-photo courtesy of Sakshama<\/strong><\/p>\n Comparison of Counterfeit Shank Ends(two on Left) with Real Otto Link Slant Shank End (the one on the Right)<\/strong><\/p>\n Brian Powell mentions in his email above that “there is evidence on the shank ends that shows their reverse engineered molding process<\/em>“.\u00a0 The photo above shows the two counterfeit Slants on the left side of the photo and a real Early Babbitt Otto Link\u00a0 “Slant Blank” tenor mouthpiece that I own on the right and if you look closely, you can see the differences between the ends of the shanks. The real EB Otto Link on the right is smooth on the end of the shank and the two fake Slant Otto Links on the left have a texture and what look like layers on the end of the shank. Besides this obvious difference with the shanks, I don’t see much else to\u00a0 warn potential buyers that these are counterfeit mouthpieces.<\/p>\n Like I stated in the beginning, the two tenor mouthpieces in the photos are copies of a Vintage Otto Link No USA Slant Signature Tenor Mouthpiece and the alto mouthpiece is a NY Bros Meyer alto sax mouthpiece.\u00a0 It’s probably not a coincidence that Theo Wanne on\u00a0 his mouthpiece museum page<\/a> writes that these two vintage saxophone mouthpieces are the most sought after (and most expensive) in the vintage mouthpiece market. Coincidence?\u00a0 \u00a0Yeah, I don’t think so either……If you are going to counterfeit something, might as well go for the big bucks……<\/p>\n Below are photos of the Counterfeit Meyer NY Bros 4 alto saxophone mouthpiece.\u00a0 I compared these photos with photos of real NY Bros Meyer mouthpieces on the internet. Many of the NY Bros Meyer have New York written on the top of the shank and these were the early version of the NY Bros Meyer.<\/p>\n The later version of the NY Bros Meyer alto sax mouthpiece had the chamber size written on the top of the shank like the counterfeit Meyer NY Bros photo below so this is apparently a copy of the later version NY Bros Meyer alto saxophone mouthpiece.<\/p>\n Counterfeit Meyer NY Bros Alto Saxophone Mouthpiece<\/strong><\/p>\n Besides the obvious difference with the texture of the shank ends, the only other thing that I see in these photos that might sound alarm bells for me is the amount of shininess I am seeing in the photos. Usually, a mouthpiece that is 60-70+ years old will not have a lot of shine on it.\u00a0 These mouthpieces seemed to be really shiny and new to me.\u00a0 You never know though, maybe the seller put some kind of oil on them to help them sell better which some people do.<\/p>\n Counterfeit Meyer NY Bros Alto Saxophone Mouthpiece<\/strong><\/p>\n I am in no way a vintage mouthpiece expert so I will leave the fine detail of any differences between these counterfeit mouthpieces and the real vintage originals to the experts out there.\u00a0 I have provided a boatload of photos so that the experts out there might be able to chime in if they can see any differences that I can’t.<\/p>\n Honestly, if these are really good counterfeits of the vintage mouthpieces then it would be hard to tell the difference between them and the real mouthpieces by looking at photos if the counterfeiters are any good.\u00a0 I guess that would be a primary goal for these counterfeiters.<\/p>\n Counterfeit Meyer NY Bros Alto Saxophone Mouthpiece<\/strong><\/p>\n At first, I thought this amount of shine on the baffle area would be a sure sign that this mouthpiece is plastic but if you look at this review I did of a vintage NY Meyer alto mouthpiece<\/a> last year, the baffle area also has a good amount of shine to it’s hard rubber so I’m not sure how useful the shine factor is in differentiating between a real and counterfeit mouthpiece.<\/p>\n Counterfeit Meyer NY Bros Alto Saxophone Mouthpiece<\/strong><\/p>\n As these mouthpieces are counterfeits and technically illegal, I will not be playing them nor reporting on how good or bad they are.\u00a0 I know some of you will be disappointed to read this but I just feel like writing any kind of review of these mouthpieces will legitimize what these guys are doing.\u00a0 I have no idea how many of these have been sold but I feel awful for the players out there that might have seen a great deal and perhaps bought these as an investment or even bought one because they always wanted to try one and now they find out that these are fake copies made of plastic.<\/p>\n The thought of providing a review that might actually make player’s out there want one of these illegal mouthpieces more is not something I want to be a part of.<\/p>\n Besides the moral objection to reviewing these mouthpieces, their tip opening are much smaller than I am used to or even like on a sax mouthpiece so I am honestly not even tempted to try these mouthpieces.\u00a0 Even if they were my perfect tip opening, I would not post a review of these mouthpieces due to the corrupt character of the sellers.<\/p>\n Counterfeit Meyer NY Bros Alto Saxophone Mouthpiece<\/strong><\/p>\n You can see a clear line in what I would consider the bore of this counterfeit mouthpiece above.\u00a0 The original later version of the NY Bros Meyer mouthpiece also had a line in the chamber but from the photos I have seen the line in the original looks to be more forward towards the rear of the chamber where the bore starts.\u00a0 This line looks to be further back in the bore of the mouthpiece but it could also just be the angle of the photo.<\/p>\n Counterfeit Meyer NY Bros Alto Saxophone Mouthpiece Shank with uneven surface<\/strong><\/p>\n You can clearly see the rough surface of the shank end of the mouthpiece in the photo above which according to Brian Powell is evidence of the counterfeiter’s molding process.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n Below are photos of the counterfeit Otto Link No USA Slant Signature 5 tenor saxophone mouthpiece.\u00a0 This mouthpiece does not have USA on the bottom of the shank so it is a copy of the second version of an Otto Link No USA Slant Signature mouthpiece.\u00a0 Here is what Theo Wanne says about this mouthpiece on his mouthpiece museum page<\/a>:<\/p>\n The second version had a squarer shank, and had the tip size on the side of the mouthpiece. \u00a0 These were made standard up to a 9\u00a0and had a lot more baffle material in them. The No USA version had a roll-over baffle similar to its metal brother, however, perhaps even higher, and are considered the most desirable of the slant links along with the later USA \u2018Slant Signature\u2019 version.<\/em><\/p>\n Counterfeit Otto Link No USA Slant 5 Tenor Saxophone Mouthpiece<\/strong><\/p>\n The shape of the mouthpiece and engraving above look pretty darn close if not exact to the real thing to my eyes.\u00a0 Maybe someone who deals with fonts can discern a difference in the lettering but I have gone back and forth between these photos and photos of real Slant Signature Otto Link mouthpieces and could not find a clear and certain difference in the engraving.\u00a0 If you see something please let us know….(although you will probably be letting the counterfeiters know also……)<\/p>\n Counterfeit Otto Link No USA Slant 5 Tenor Saxophone Mouthpiece<\/strong><\/p>\n Be aware of these kinds of scams because they are getting better and better.\u00a0 Who knows, after this blog post they might figure out how to fix the few issues I wrote about in this article.<\/p>\n Very important!\u00a0 Always read any negative reviews a seller might have.\u00a0 I have read many reports of these sellers having many positive reviews and only a few negative reviews\u00a0 but in each case the negative reviews were something like “These are all fakes!\u00a0 It’s a scam!\u00a0 Beware!” Make sure you read any negative reviews that are there regardless of how many positive reviews there are.<\/p>\n Counterfeit Otto Link No USA Slant 5 Tenor Saxophone Mouthpiece<\/strong><\/p>\n I would also suggest that if you are brave enough (or foolish enough….) to take a chance on buying one of these vintage mouthpieces that might be counterfeit that you immediately try lightly rubbing some really fine sandpaper on the inside of the bore or on the end of the shank to see what color the dust is. (This is something I would admittedly be nervous about doing myself but others have suggested it.\u00a0 I take no responsibility whatsoever for anything you do to your mouthpiece……)<\/p>\n If it is white or gray dust then you can file a claim with Ebay and report that you received a counterfeit item and perhaps get your money back from what I have been told.<\/p>\n Or, you could do like my friend did and send the mouthpiece to a mouthpiece refacer to have them check it out.\u00a0 Of course, this involves more money for shipping, insurance and the refacer’s time but at least you would have a clear answer.\u00a0 You could even have the refacer write a statement attesting to the fact that the mouthpiece is counterfeit as proof for Ebay and to the seller.<\/p>\n Counterfeit Otto Link No USA Slant 5 Tenor Saxophone Mouthpiece<\/strong><\/p>\n My goal in writing this blog post is not so much to give you hints on how to detect these counterfeit mouthpiece but just to warn everyone that these counterfeit mouthpieces are out there and that even mouthpiece refacers are having a hard time telling the real mouthpieces from the fake ones.\u00a0 Be cautious!\u00a0 If you see a bunch of vintage mouthpiece being sold out of a country like Serbia, Bulgaria\u00a0 or a sketchy place like Florida (just kidding…..) and they look to be brand new you should be nervous.<\/p>\n If the mouthpieces look brand new or even if they look worn or faded by the sun, think about whether the condition and look of the mouthpiece could have been faked.\u00a0 I have seen discussions about mouthpieces where many people thought they were fake but the pieces looked faded and old nonetheless.\u00a0 I was wondering what elaborate steps the counterfeiters might have taken to make the mouthpiece “look” old and “vintage”…….<\/p>\n Counterfeit Otto Link No USA Slant 5 Tenor Saxophone Mouthpiece with what look like original milling lines on the table<\/strong><\/p>\n In the photo above, you can see what appear to be milling lines on the table of the mouthpiece. I have heard people claim that these lines are proof that a mouthpiece is a real vintage Otto Link mouthpiece in the past but obviously that is not the case with these counterfeits.<\/p>\n Counterfeit Otto Link No USA Slant 5 Tenor Saxophone Mouthpiece<\/strong><\/p>\n One idea in dealing with these unethical sellers is to communicate with them and tell them that you will be immediately sending the mouthpiece to a mouthpiece refacer to check its validity.\u00a0 If the mouthpiece is real, the seller should have no problem with this.\u00a0 If it is not, then most likely the seller will not respond or they may even block you from the sale.\u00a0 This seems to be a common tactic with these sellers.\u00a0 If you ask one question about authenticity you are blocked from the sale.\u00a0 \u00a0I even read one post by a person in Australia who asked the seller a question and the seller said he was blocking all of Australia because of the guys question……..<\/p>\n Counterfeit Otto Link No USA Slant 5 Tenor Saxophone Mouthpiece<\/strong><\/p>\n Again, you see a line towards the rear of the chamber of the counterfeit Slant mouthpiece photo above.\u00a0 This looks to be in a similar spot as the line in real vintage Slant Signature mouthpiece photos that I have seen.<\/p>\n Counterfeit Otto Link No USA Slant 5 Tenor Saxophone Mouthpiece with overlapping layers of plastic on the shank end<\/strong><\/p>\n In the photo above, you can clearly see the sloppy layers around the shank end of the mouthpiece. Again, this is a clear sign of the molding process.<\/p>\n Below are photos of the counterfeit Otto Link No USA Slant Signature 6* tenor saxophone mouthpiece with quite a shine to it.<\/p>\n Counterfeit Otto Link No USA Slant 6* Tenor Saxophone Mouthpiece<\/strong><\/p>\n Counterfeit Otto Link No USA Slant 6* Tenor Saxophone Mouthpiece<\/strong><\/p>\n Counterfeit Otto Link No USA Slant 6* Tenor Saxophone Mouthpiece<\/strong><\/p>\n The table and baffle in the photo above seem to have a texture and graininess that seems a bit rough and odd for hard rubber to me but this is just my gut feeling and I am not an expert on all the ways hard rubber can be affected by the environment.<\/p>\n Counterfeit Otto Link No USA Slant 6* Tenor Saxophone Mouthpiece<\/strong><\/p>\n Counterfeit Otto Link No USA Slant 6* Tenor Saxophone Mouthpiece<\/strong><\/p>\n Normally, I would say this tip opening number being so close to the edge of the mouthpiece might be a sign this mouthpiece is a counterfeit but I have seen lots of Otto Links through the years with tip opening number askew or slightly off position so I am not sure this number on the edge is a sure sign of anything.<\/p>\n Counterfeit Otto Link No USA Slant 6* Tenor Saxophone Mouthpiece<\/strong><\/p>\n The chambers of all three of these mouthpiece all look pretty typical in shape to real Otto Link Slant and Meyer NY Bros chambers.\u00a0 I don’t see anything that sticks out as confirming\u00a0 that this is a counterfeit.
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