In part one of this blog post on “the differences a ligature can make” I talked about the difference a ligature can make to a saxophone player from his or her perspective. (For those of you who don’t know, the ligature is the device that holds the saxophone reed to the mouthpiece) How it can affect different aspects of the sound, attack and response of the saxophone. In this article I’m going to try approaching the subject from the other side………….the listener. What kind of difference can a listener detect when using different ligatures. Is it obvious to the whole audience when Joshua Redman uses a different ligature. If, when Brecker was alive, he used a rovner ligature instead of his trusted Selmer 404 would people have gotten up and walked out of his concerts………………..I doubt that very much. But the question always arises……..can a difference be heard when a different ligature is used?
For this test I’m going to play on a Meyer alto saxophone mouthpiece with a Vandoren Java #3 reed. I’m going to play the exact same thing using 7 different ligatures. In between clips, I will change ligature while holding the reed firmly to the mouthpiece to make sure it doesn’t move at all. I will slide the new ligature on and play the same phrase again. The phrase I’m playing is just a simple G major scale pattern in thirds. I make sure to go up high and down to the low end. I also tongue some staccato notes in the middle so you can hear how the ligatures might affect the articulation. I’m trying my hardest to play the line the same every time.
Listen to the 7 clips below (headphones would be ideal) and see if you can hear any differences. The reed, mouthpiece, saxophone and player are all the same. The only thing that is changing from clip to clip is the ligature. They are recorded at 320kbps mp3 as that was the best quality I could get. Let me know what you think in the comments section as I am very interested in what your opinions are………………Thanks, Steve
Francois Louis Pure Brass Ligature
Vandoren Optimum Ligature
Oleg Gold Ligature
Marc Jean Gold Plated Ligature
Rovner Dark Ligature
No Name Cheap Brass Ligature
Theo Wanne Gold Enlightened Ligature
Can you hear any differences between the ligatures? (Poll Results)
- Yes, I can hear a difference (59%, 110 Votes)
- No, they all sound the same! Enough with this ligature obsession! (41%, 76 Votes)
Total Voters: 186
Cool post! I personally believe that the ligature rarely has an effect on sound, BUT it does change how comfortable the player feels, some are a tad friendlier with reeds (generally the ones with less contact), and often players can hear a difference in their sound because the vibrations are so close to them, though you rarely have others hear it.
On the other hand, for those who REALLY care about finding the truth behind whether ligatures make a difference, I recommend you watch the videos on youtube of jay thomas (youtube id: jaythomasjazz) on the Slant Signature soprano piece. There is a video where he is using a Vandoren Optimum that the piece just doesn’t like so much. Then he made another video afterwards using a simple 2 screw selmer soprano piece and the sound is MUCH bigger. You can hear it very distinctly. I’m talking about a difference as big as the mouthpiece! But then again, it isn’t always that way.
Very very minimal difference in sound we hear on these clips…
I still maintain ligature don’t affect the recorded sax tone but they DO affect reed playability and response for the player (which could affect the sound you get because of the comfort level or whatnot..)
Interesting test would be to make this a blind test and between each recording of each lig…take a 10 min break and go do computer stuff or whatever and get the previous ‘sound’ out of your ear then record the next clip after…
I found that if I try to record sound clips, with the same phrase of music, consecutively…I subconsciously make the mouthpiece/lig combo sound like the previous…ie I adjust …
Anyway..
thanks for the test it was fun!
PS Sounded like you felt the most comfortable on the Marc Jean lig and Oleg…
I don’t hear a difference so much in the timber, though there are subtle difference. The differences I hear are more in clarity, strength of tone, and resonance.
The Rovner and the generic ligature definitely sound different than the others. Stuffier. The Marc Jean and Theo Wanne (I think it’s pronounced like “Suwannee”, as in the river, minus the “su”)have a little something extra to them. Maybe the Vandoren too. And then the FL and Oleg below them and are pretty similar.
Only differences I hear: Rovner dark has a quicker decay to the sound, no name has a slightly less precise staccato.
I think that the Theo Wanne sounded best with the no name in close second, but I think there were more things changing. You can only control reed placement so much and the reed might have changed positions while you where changing ligs, but I think those two were the best (I liked the tone of the no name best, but the Theo Wanne was more in tune). There were VERY subtle differences, but they were there.
The difference was so small as to be insignificant. I would guess the difference is more important to the player than the audience.
Although when listening to theses clips there is very little variation to be noticed, I contend that the real difference is in the sound the player hears, whether it be reflected or in the ear drum, etc. Over many years of playing the sax using multitudes of mpc’s and ligatures I always revert to two ligs. One I made up by combining a brass reed plate with a Rovner dark fabric for metal mpc’s and another which is a stock brass Brancher for HR. MY AUDIENCE AND FANS CONTENED THAT NO MATTER WHAT I USE MY SOUND IS THE SAME. Alas – please yourself IMHO and you’ll preform better regardless.
Anthony
I did something similar a year or two ago. I took a Rovner,cut a slit in it and put a plate from a Optimum ligature into it. I actually liked it a ton more than the Rovner and the Optimum.
Well, the gold ligs sounded much richer to me, the brass ligs were much brassier, and the dark was…………..well, darker.
Just kidding; no real difference.
Peace,
Mike
Whowao!!! Just great… personally i’ve never been very interested about ligatures. I knew they made difference, but i never thought it maked such a difference. There are unbelievable difference is things such as timbre (a lot!!) in different registers also, and a lot in articulation… i used all my live a ligature that came with the sax, but after this i will really dig on this..
For my ears variation seem really big (others not so big but can be noticed)…
Great Post
The difference in tone I hear is minimal, however I do hear very clear differences the sound from top to bottom of the scale. a couple are a little stuffier in the top and the sound seems a little pinched off to me.
For me it is all in the playability and responssiveness of the reed, rather than the sound other’s perceive. With some ligatures I have to work harder at the lower or higher notes. Another issue not addressed here is ligature placement. I noticed that the same issues of clarity and responsivenss is affected by ligature placement and since there is such a variety of styles betwen the ligatures listed I wonder if my perceptions of sound differences could be accounted for by that as much as the style of the ligature iteself.
Thanks for the response Marshall. I did try my hardest to put the ligatures in the same place on the reed for every recording. Not perfect but close anyways.
I only had time to do a detailed AB between the Wanne and the Rovner. AFter several listens through Grado reference headphones I hear a subtle difference.
I wonder if the most important part of ligaturing (???) is getting the tension on the reed correct and balanced across and along the table.
Hi Steve,
I enjoy your posts – I guess we all suffer from mouthpiece mayhem & ligature ludicrousy from time to time, & as many have said before it will always be in the ear of the beholder, but if it is of any use to you – from my end the oleg : centres, brightens & clarifies your sound the most & seems to play more acurate aswell, not that there is anything wrong with your tuning anyway, but you know what I mean.
I wont even mention reeds !!
keep blowin’ man & go with whatever breathes
cheers mate
I think the differences are huge. As in every single step between you and the sound. Everything counts. At least in my experience/taste.
And not just in the sense that you can be more or less comfortable. But in the quality of the sound itself.
Granted, i don’t think there’s a BEST ligature that will work BEST on any mouthpiece. Just as much as truffle doesn’t work on a lavender cookie.
But it’s that painful (mostly expensive
) process of finding the right match for a specific piece.
I’m sure that a really “bad” ligature could compensate really well a specific (maybe even really expensive) mouthpiece. And vice-versa. (a very dull ligature with a way too bright mouthpiece, or an overly bright and responsive ligature with a dull mouthpiece)
Not to mention that how far in the front or in the back the ligature is pressing against the reed makes a huge difference as well, in responsiveness and the capacity to brighten up the sound.
One curiosity i have is, since i found the three sounds to be very different, which pressure plate do you generally use on the Vandoren Optimum? Thanks!
BTW with this mouthpiece-sax-reed combo, the Marc Jean was definitely my favorite!
I use the plate with the strips that go in the direction of the reed. I like that one the best.
Steve
which ligature do you feel is the most free blowing?
I think the Saxxas is the most free blowing. if a reed is hard to play, I can put on the Saxxas and it is much easier to blow. I haven’t done a review of that one yet.